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Post by huillaume on Apr 2, 2020 18:20:46 GMT
Thanks. I was sure something failed in what I understood...
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Post by gaston on Apr 2, 2020 18:23:08 GMT
Characters can toady to those whose SL is lower than their own but it's really not a good idea because you'll lose SP. (NPCs will refuse outright, even with influence use). Although characters can only toady to one character in any one week, there is no limit to the number of characters a higher SL character can be toadied to by in any one week. So, in your example, Huillaume would get 1 SP each from being toadied to by Franóis (SL 13) Pierre (SL 12) and Alain (SL 11). He wouldn't gain an SP from being toadied to by Georges (SL 10) - but he wouldn't lose any SPs either. So Huillaume would get 3 SPs from being toadied to that week. [Whoops...looks like I was little slow on the draw there ] [Edited as per below]
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Apr 2, 2020 18:37:24 GMT
Small correction. After several requests it is now technically possible to toady to a character of lower SL than you, but it's really not a good idea because you'll lose SP. (NPCs will refuse outright, even with influence use).
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Post by gaston on Apr 3, 2020 8:12:30 GMT
Small correction. After several requests it is now technically possible to toady to a character of lower SL than you, but it's really not a good idea because you'll lose SP. (NPCs will refuse outright, even with influence use). Must admit I'd missed that. It does seem a little strange... I can see why from a RP perspective it might be good for characters to have the opportunity to go 'slumming' (ie accept invitations to the clubs or houses of social inferiors and carouse at their expense), but crawling to social inferiors (which is effectively what toadying is)...? It's the end of the World as we know it Maybe just have the socially inferior host gain 1 SP for having a superior guest and allow the superior guest to carouse (at his host's expense) without recourse the drunkenness table (because who cares what Social Inferiors think anyway?) ?. That way both parties would get a SP out of it without having to turn the social order on its head by having nobles crawl to peasants
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Post by Yves Eau on Apr 3, 2020 8:20:10 GMT
Maybe just have the socially inferior host gain 1 SP for having a superior guest and allow the superior guest to carouse (at his host's expense) without recourse the drunkenness table … That way both parties would get a SP out of it without having to turn the social order on its head by having nobles crawl to peasants The superior character's intent may be to boost the standing of his protégé, by fulsomely praising his abilities, rather than crawling. Whatever the RP, I agree with providing this chance for SP to the host. I am not so sure about safeguarding the nob's reputation, though; bosses who act stupidly at work parties can definitely lose status, though few would dare to tell them to their faces.
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Post by Loic Galopin on Apr 3, 2020 10:13:40 GMT
Minor typo:I guess it whould be final, not finial... Depends whether you shout it from the rooftops :)
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Post by gaston on Apr 3, 2020 10:15:12 GMT
SPs for Attending Races
At races a seat in the Grandstand costs 1 Livre and gives 1 SP to the purchaser.
A seat in the Pavilion costs 10 (or 20) livres and gives 2 SPs to the purchaser (with further SPs begin possible from toadying / carousing).
An even more presigious seat in an owner's box costs 200+ livres plus horse upkeep plus 100 livres race entry fee (or being the guest of someone who has paid this) but could result in no SPs at all since it depends upon toadying to visiting royalty or to the box host(ess) - which may not be allowed.
As time goes on it will get worse for high SL racehorse owners since they will no longer get any SPs for toadying to the King etc. When this happens they'd be better off watching the race from the Pavillion and indulging toadying with friends than they would watching from an owner's box - which seems strange to say the least.
I'd like to suggest that the cell detailing SP for Race for those in an owner's box (in section 29.15 of the rules) be changed to
Finally, is the Drunkenness Table in operation at races? Even in Private Boxes ?
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Post by Loic Galopin on Apr 3, 2020 10:18:00 GMT
Between you you've actually spotted an inconsistency in the rules. I'm going with the one box per owner rule, not per horse. Okay. Is that a game rule (i.e. a rule of Liminal EG!), or an in-game rule (i.e. a rule of the race course/governing body within the game)? Enquiring minds 'n' all that :D
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Post by huillaume on Apr 3, 2020 11:16:41 GMT
You're wrong in that nothing says you don't get SP for being toadied to by several people. So in this case Hullaume would gain 3 SP, not 1. This still poses a small problem (in game mechanics POV, not in RPG's): Let's assume a Duke attends Huillaum party (as described before). He is SL 18. As everyone (included Huillaume) toadies with him, everyone gains more SP, except Huillaume himself, whose SP gain is reduced to 2 ((18-14)/2)... OTOH, the Duke may even lose some SPs for attending... So, this honored guest may cost the host SPs. Not saying this has not even some logics (as the onored guest takes protagonism from the host), just pointing the fact.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Apr 3, 2020 11:45:23 GMT
Must admit I'd missed that. It does seem a little strange... I can see why from a RP perspective it might be good for characters to have the opportunity to go 'slumming' (ie accept invitations to the clubs or houses of social inferiors and carouse at their expense), but crawling to social inferiors (which is effectively what toadying is)...? It's the end of the World as we know it I also find it rather odd and would never use it myself as a player. But my view is that a few people said they'd like the option and it harms nobody else! I actually think turning the social order on its head is why there's quite such a major SP penalty for this. That would be standard toadying. "And this is my protege" is still toadying to the higher SL patron. By its very nature toadying involves a level of obsequiousness. Agree with that though; it's the public nature that's potentially scandalous. (Although as mentioned I expect to see this come up once in a blue moon!)
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Post by Yves Eau on Apr 3, 2020 11:46:22 GMT
Let's assume a Duke attends Huillaume's party (as described before). He is SL 18. As everyone (included Huillaume) toadies with him, everyone gains more SP, except Huillaume himself, whose SP gain is reduced to 2 ((18-14)/2)... OTOH, the Duke may even lose some SPs for attending... So, this honored guest may cost the host SPs. It is was Huillaume's decision to invite the Duke; more fool him, if he stands to lose out. Maybe something to bear in mind when the window opens once more for rule change suggestions.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Apr 3, 2020 11:48:55 GMT
This still poses a small problem (in game mechanics POV, not in RPG's): Let's assume a Duke attends Huillaum party (as described before). He is SL 18. As everyone (included Huillaume) toadies with him, everyone gains more SP, except Huillaume himself, whose SP gain is reduced to 2 ((18-14)/2)... OTOH, the Duke may even lose some SPs for attending... So, this honored guest may cost the host SPs. Not saying this has not even some logics (as the onored guest takes protagonism from the host), just pointing the fact. Not an issue in my view. There are times when being surrounded by a crowd of sycophants is going to be far better socially than having a guest of honour.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Apr 3, 2020 12:09:45 GMT
SPs for Attending RacesAt races a seat in the Grandstand costs 1 Livre and gives 1 SP to the purchaser. A seat in the Pavilion costs 10 (or 20) livres and gives 2 SPs to the purchaser (with further SPs begin possible from toadying / carousing). An even more presigious seat in an owner's box costs 200+ livres plus horse upkeep plus 100 livres race entry fee (or being the guest of someone who has paid this) but could result in no SPs at all since it depends upon toadying to visiting royalty or to the box host(ess) - which may not be allowed. As time goes on it will get worse for high SL racehorse owners since they will no longer get any SPs for toadying to the King etc. When this happens they'd be better off watching the race from the Pavillion and indulging toadying with friends than they would watching from an owner's box - which seems strange to say the least. I'd like to suggest that the cell detailing SP for Race for those in an owner's box (in section 29.15 of the rules) be changed to Technically, you aren't buying an owner's box. It's free. But that's a rp thing and I take your point. Slightly modified, instead I suggest that being in the owner's box gives you an extra 2 SP on top of anything else. Don't think that's overpowered and it's easier to remember than a minimum floor. Another change that needs making before the derby is that guests should get half the SP for owning a winning horse if they're in the winner's circle. At the moment it's possible for a guest to get more than the horse owner which feels silly. Definitely not in private boxes; they count as private parties. I'm incined to say no in general. Unintentional drunkeness is only really a danger when drinking at clubs. Drinking isn't the focus at the races in the same way. In game. The boxes are provided as a courtesy and the race course sees no reason to offer more than one box per owner.
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Post by Loic Galopin on Apr 3, 2020 12:44:47 GMT
In game. The boxes are provided as a courtesy and the race course sees no reason to offer more than one box per owner. Thanks for clarifying :)
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Post by gaston on Apr 3, 2020 12:52:37 GMT
Yep, that works.
It hadn't even registered that Box Guests got extra SPs if the Box Owner's horse did well. Half the owner' s SPs still seems excessive for reflected glory. How about
3 SPs if the horse wins 2 SPs for a place 1 SP for a show
+1 SP if the Derby ?
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