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Post by Jacques Bougiedure on May 6, 2021 20:57:15 GMT
I would like to propose a slight adjustment to the way income is calculated. I like the idea of an environmental factor affecting all estate holders equally but hate the way the new calculation devalues the importance of Administration skill. Under the new rules, a Chevalier that gets a great Admin SCR (1) and an unlucky estate die roll (1) gets only 12 crowns of income each month whereas a Chevalier with a poor Admin SCR (6) and a lucky estate die roll (6) gets 48 crowns. To me this favors luck over skill too much.
I suggest that a regional environment modifier (random chance) replace the +/-2 modifier to Provincial Base Revenue and that character administration results (7-Admin SCR) replace the D6 rolls.
This is places greater emphasis on character’s Admin skill while still retaining two elements of chance (the random environment modifier and the skill roll). Under my proposal, the Chevalier that gets a great Admin SCR (1) and an unlucky environmental roll (1) would get 48 crowns as a testament to his good management, while the Chevalier with a poor Admin SCR (6) and a lucky estate die roll (6) gets 12 crowns showing that poor management will mess up even a good thing.
I would also point out that having a regional environment modifier would affect all estates in the province so the environment roll would have the same impact on JBO and RA. Their admin skill and the skill roll would be the differentiation.
Garrett
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on May 6, 2021 21:02:56 GMT
Rule 14.6 left me a little fuzzy on this. Perhaps reword it as: "14.6 If the roll to to promote to the next higher title fails, the character gets a second attempt for an additional title of equal or lower noble rank (determined randomly). If successful, the character receives an additional estate to go along with the additional title, gaining the SPs as normal." How does Rule 14.6 apply in the case, like Huillame, where the character already has additional titles? For example, if HLB fails the rolls to promote from Viscomte to Comte, does he get a chance to promote from Baron to Viscomte for his second title? If yes and HLB fails the promotion from Baron to Viscomte, does he get a chance (a third attempt at this point) for a third title? I think there should be no cap on the number of titles a character can hold. I would suggest that any additional titles gained through 14.6 automatically start as Chevalier. Having the chance as a Duc to get a second Duc title seems a little to OP to me. As written, the intention was that he'd only roll for the higher and then for the chance of a new one. But I actually think your way works better. So the top title is rolled for first, if that fails then it goes down in order finishing with a roll for a new Chevalier title.. And someone can only get a new Chevalier title if they're at least a Baron. (I don't think there were any double Chevaliers in this way). I also think only the mortgaged title can't be improved and no new title will be granted while that's the case. That rule mostly came into play because of the Hulluame situation, where it seemed really unfair for him to be punished by his father's death by being stagnated forever! That does bring up the question of whether inherited titles can be sold and my instinct is yes, but it's an insult to the King in the same way. (And they can't be left in wills, mostly for balance reasons)
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on May 6, 2021 21:13:05 GMT
I would think that the reason the female (PC or NPC) has an estate is because no legitimate male heir is alive to take the title. If there were, even a male child, the male would have precedence over all the females. It makes me sound like an oinker but I am not certain that females in 17th Century France could inherit estates. I think that estates where the male line died out went back to the king. The question is really more about if HLB is able to do away with his wife like he did with his elder brother and father (wink, wink) what happens to the female NPC's Baronial estate? Garrett The question there was more specifically if there were no children does it go to the wife or an uncle? And that's one where I think that female PCs probably shouldn't be disadvantaged too much; playability over historicity I'd say. I do think the wife's estate would either go back to a distant relative or return to the King. (I'm also not planning to roll for NPC titles to be raised here!)
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on May 6, 2021 21:17:30 GMT
I would like to propose a slight adjustment to the way income is calculated. I like the idea of an environmental factor affecting all estate holders equally but hate the way the new calculation devalues the importance of Administration skill. Under the new rules, a Chevalier that gets a great Admin SCR (1) and an unlucky estate die roll (1) gets only 12 crowns of income each month whereas a Chevalier with a poor Admin SCR (6) and a lucky estate die roll (6) gets 48 crowns. To me this favors luck over skill too much. I suggest that a regional environment modifier (random chance) replace the +/-2 modifier to Provincial Base Revenue and that character administration results (7-Admin SCR) replace the D6 rolls. This is places greater emphasis on character’s Admin skill while still retaining two elements of chance (the random environment modifier and the skill roll). Under my proposal, the Chevalier that gets a great Admin SCR (1) and an unlucky environmental roll (1) would get 48 crowns as a testament to his good management, while the Chevalier with a poor Admin SCR (6) and a lucky estate die roll (6) gets 12 crowns showing that poor management will mess up even a good thing. I would also point out that having a regional environment modifier would affect all estates in the province so the environment roll would have the same impact on JBO and RA. Their admin skill and the skill roll would be the differentiation. Garrett That works I think. And the price of Land Agents should probably be raised accordingly as they're more important again.
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Post by huillaume on May 6, 2021 22:25:30 GMT
I think that Louis XIII should award HLB the title Viscomte of the Usually Unusual Ohhh, I was hoping for the Vescomte of Oddity
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Post by Jacques Bougiedure on May 7, 2021 18:22:00 GMT
It is way down the list for being updated but with the changes to the titling system and JBO intending to pester the Royal Steward for an audience with the King every chance he gets, you should relook the Royal Favour table (30.32).
Currently the odds of each favour (when rolled for) are: Title Attempt 25.0% Replace with multiple MRLs? Toady Invite 16.7% No change needed Mention 16.7% Only one MRL seems too little at these odds Class 9 Favor 13.9% No change needed Money Gift 13.9% No change needed but see suggestion below Auto Title 2.8% Probably no change needed
To me, the chance of getting a title is insanely high especially as Huillame pointed out that a character with an SL in the high teens is almost assured a successful title attempt role. Coupled with the new rule giving additional attempts at an equal or lessor title it might become the single best activity in the game. If you want to keep it in the list of possible favours, I would suggest making in less likely
The money gift could be replaced by a land grant. If unlanded, the character gets to roll for a country estate per 15.3 located in their home province. If already landed, the estate size is raised by 1. If the estate is already size 7, the size of any secondary estate is increased by 1 (largest estate first) or rolls for a country estate per 15.3 in a random province if no secondary estate exists.
A possible change to the favour table incorporating the above: 12 Automatic Title (2.8%) 10-11 Title Attempt/Multiple MRLs (13.9%) 8-9 Mention in Dispatch (1 MRL and 1-6 SP) (25%) 7 Toady invite (16.7%) 6 Money Gift/Land Grant (13.9%) 2-5 Class 9 Favor (16.7%)
If you have different ideas with a general chance, I can help you figure what die roll would be needed.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on May 8, 2021 10:14:07 GMT
Those work I think.
I would note that a SCR of 5 leads to Royal Disfavour although realistically that probably just means players aren't going to risk it until that's impossible.
Also, on MRLs, to get Royal Favour a player will have made an SCR of at least 2, which means 2 MRLs on *top* of anything else!
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on May 16, 2021 17:34:27 GMT
I will be getting the revised version of this out next week; just have another writing project to finish first!
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Post by huillaume on May 28, 2021 11:47:21 GMT
I hope not to be late to the party, but some more comments (about states) one more suggestion:
States income:
I like the idea of the admin roll per season, as rolling every month would lead to an excessive (and probably unfair) skill raising for state owners.
OTOH, I liked more the old system to use Admin roll. Not only made the income less variable (as now two factors affect them, and the Admin roll rarely had the whole range), but made more important the Admin skill (be it the own one or hiring a state manager). With this new effect, a state manager is less worth of it. Keeping old system would also reduce dice rolling, but, of course, this depends on how much do you want the skill and the luck to affect it.
Suggestion (about inherited states):
While a new state is rolled anew for size, for inherited ones I’d make them depending on family richness.
So, while an impoverished one represents a mortgaged one, and so its size is irrelevant, a poor noble should have its minimum size (roll of 1), a very wealthy one the maximum (roll of 6) and a well-to-do or wealthy one in between (rolls of 2-3 and 4-5 respectively).
If this state is latter increased (by a new title roll), it is rolled anew (but never reduced, of course).
E.g. Pierre, Paul, Renné and Robert all inherit a comté each.
Pierre ,coming from a poor family, would have a size 1 one, Paul (roll of 1), coming from a well-to do one, a size 2 one (roll of 2-3), Renné, from a wealthy one, a size 3 one (roll of 4-5) and Robert (fro m a very wealthy family) a size 4 state (roll of 6).
In case of impoverished nobles, they receive their mortgaged state, but the size could be variable (or considered well –to-do as the former rules considered, should it be redeemed)
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on May 28, 2021 12:03:14 GMT
I think coltredhead's idea helps fix the "not enough effect of admin" issue?
I like the suggestion for inheritance and will be putting it in.
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Post by huillaume on May 28, 2021 15:24:55 GMT
I think coltredhead's idea helps fix the "not enough effect of admin" issue? Oh, sorry. Somehow I skipped it...
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Jun 10, 2021 19:15:58 GMT
Back on track, so I think this will be out tomorrow!
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Jun 12, 2021 16:00:38 GMT
Hah, this is done and will be up after I finish clean installing my PC. (Long story. Probably tomorrow).
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Jun 13, 2021 19:32:05 GMT
Dammit, ok, it's almost done again. (Had to revert to an earlier save because of a corrupted file). It's not going to be that delayed though, I'll get returns etc. done then redo it.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Jul 8, 2021 0:24:35 GMT
Ok, I think this is pretty near complete! Let me know what you think! (I think we'll bring this in for June, both to give time to prepare and have the new seasonal roll for the income live) As I'm sure some of you are *most* interested in the size of your estates under these new rules. HulluameComte of Deois - Size 4 Lagarde de Bearne Viscomte Estate (Mortgaged) – Size 3 Wife’s Estate – Size 1 JacquesComte Estate Size 2 RenaldOwn Barony Size 2 Wife’s Barony Size 1 Arnold
Own Estate Size 1
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