Rewrite: Clubs and Female Companionship

[Ymbert Montgomery]

Next up!

Clubs should be straightforward, FC maybe needs a bit more work.

[Jacques Bougiedure]

FC Ideas
I have spent a lot of time this holiday season watching period drama, especially BBC renditions of Jane Austen works, and I have been thinking about Rhi’s observation that Liminal is “Jane Austen in the world of the Three Musketeers”. Here are some ideas to improve gameplay with Rhi’s observations in mind.

Ladies of Paris Refresh
New characters are at a disadvantage because the choice female NPCs are mostly taken by established characters. The attached female companions have an average SL of 13.9 and 1.4 attributes. The unattached female companions have an average SL of 8.8 and 1 attribute

The original EG! Rules had one FC per PC to encourage rivalries and duels especially as characters rose in SL and needed additional SP. We currently have 7 unattached characters but only 5 unattached female companions.

To reflect a more fluid society and give new characters a better chance at a high SL with multiple attributes, I suggest that FC that remain unattached for a year are replaced with newly rolled FCs. This could represent marriage to NPCs, becoming an old maid, or otherwise being removed from Paris social scene. The arrival of new FCs is the annual “coming out” of young ladies into society. Refresh of the list of FCs should occur at the start of the social season.

Family and Friends
Unescorted and unattached women in regency fiction are rare and usually tainted by scandal. All unmarried (including engaged) should be considered to under the protection of their families or with friends. PCs are not allowed to pay court to a FC unless they have received an introduction. In EG! terms the introduction and the courting are likely encompassed in one roll.

PCs should be required to make a roll pre-monthly before their first attempt to court a FC. This represents getting an introduction to lady through her family or friends. The courting roll is still required as a weekly action. After the first introduction, the PC is free to court unless an indiscretion occurs.

A successful etiquette check at the first ball of the social season grants the character an automatic introduction to all attending FCs.

As an example, Mr Collins gets an introduction (pre-monthly) through Mr and Mrs. Bennett but then fails spectacularly in his attempt to woo Elizabeth (weekly courting attempt). Another example, WIllowby is introduced to the Dashwoods through Sir John Middleton and later commits an indiscretion by throwing over Maryanne in favor of marrying a wealthy wife. He tries to get another introduction by is rebuffed by Maryanne’s sister Elenor.

Location
Having all the FCs in Paris is important to their accessibility and the Province of Birth gives variety in gameplay, but given the relative immobility of the era having FCs move from the province of their birth to Paris seems a bit contrived. Varying locations of FCs would encourage characters to go to the provinces more often.

Peasant FCs would have no reason or ability to move to Paris. Any peasant FC is automatically born in IdF.

Merchants FCs would most likely remain in the province of the birth (likely where their trade shop is at) but might make periodic trips to Paris with their father on business.

Gentlemen FCs would likely split time between their home province (with family) and Paris (with family friends)

Noble FCs would be likely to spend a great deal of time in Paris because their family wants to be close to the court but could be out in the provinces, falling the royal court or visiting their estates.

Social Season
The start of the social season sees the arrival of new ladies entering society. It commences with a ball attended by all unattached FCs of SL 6 and higher.

The season should run at least 3 months and not longer than 6 months and not during the Summer Campaign (June to August). During the social season, all FCs of SL 6 and higher are in Paris.

Secret Engagements
Edward Farris was secretly engaged to Lucy Steele. Frank Churchill was secretly engaged to Jane Fairfax. The engagements did not prevent socializing with other ladies, however, indeed Lucy Steele “courted” and eventually married Robert Farris during her engagement.

On a 1 in 6, a newly created FC has a secret engagement which applies a secret negative modifier to her chance to be courted. On a further 1 in 6, the engagement is to an unmarried PC from her home province. Otherwise the engagement is to an NPC. A PC with a secret engagement receives the benefit of companionship each month the engagement is in place at no cost. A PC with a secret engagement is able to court a different FC in addition to the secret fiancé.

There is a monthly chance that the secret fiancé will break off the engagement to a PC if a 12 is rolled on 2D6. A PC who breaks off a secret engagement suffers as if they had committed an indiscretion.

A PC may propose marriage to his secret fiancé effectively announcing the engagement. A failed proposal means that the fiancé wants the engagement to remain secret. A roll of 6 means the secret engagement is broken off (same rolls as an FC breaking an engagement after a proposal)

Scandals
Married PCs should be able to court and benefit from a mistress. To facilitate this, additional FCs should be created to equal half of the married PCs rounded up.

Married PCs must pay for both wife and mistress (3xSL unless wealthy) but get SP benefits from both.

The affair is considered secret unless revealed by another PC courting the FC in the same week as the Married PC is visiting. This is cause for a duel. The Married PC is considered to have committed an indiscretion.

An affair will also be revealed if the FC becomes pregnant and the PC is unable to buy her off.

[Ymbert Montgomery]

Jan 1, 2021 21:34:48 GMT Jacques Bougiedure said:

FC Ideas
I have spent a lot of time this holiday season watching period drama, especially BBC renditions of Jane Austen works, and I have been thinking about Rhi’s observation that Liminal is “Jane Austen in the world of the Three Musketeers”. Here are some ideas to improve gameplay with Rhi’s observations in mind.

Thanks for these! Some really interesting ideas that really play into the whole strengthening the social game I'm aiming for with Liminal. And Rhi says she's glad her throwaway observation was inspirational!

Ladies of Paris Refresh
New characters are at a disadvantage because the choice female NPCs are mostly taken by established characters. The attached female companions have an average SL of 13.9 and 1.4 attributes. The unattached female companions have an average SL of 8.8 and 1 attribute

The original EG! Rules had one FC per PC to encourage rivalries and duels especially as characters rose in SL and needed additional SP. We currently have 7 unattached characters but only 5 unattached female companions.

To reflect a more fluid society and give new characters a better chance at a high SL with multiple attributes, I suggest that FC that remain unattached for a year are replaced with newly rolled FCs. This could represent marriage to NPCs, becoming an old maid, or otherwise being removed from Paris social scene. The arrival of new FCs is the annual “coming out” of young ladies into society. Refresh of the list of FCs should occur at the start of the social season.

I do use the "one FC per PC" rule. The reason it looks like there's more competition then there is is twofold. I forgot to remove GF from the table so Sabilina is actually single. And, while I could be mistaken, I'm pretty sure Garen is no longer interested in playing and will be out after the next turn.

So with that taken into account it's 5 and 5.

I think refreshing is a good idea and I'm tempted to make it more frequent; six or even three months. I do think it should possibly be "unattached and uncourted". The reason I say that is that a bigger number of higher SL mistresses isn't in the interests of all new PCs.

The mistresses that tend to get ignored are generally the ones between SL 9 and 12 without decent attributes. The bottom 3 have all been unsuccessfully courted in the last three months.

Family and Friends
Unescorted and unattached women in regency fiction are rare and usually tainted by scandal. All unmarried (including engaged) should be considered to under the protection of their families or with friends. PCs are not allowed to pay court to a FC unless they have received an introduction. In EG! terms the introduction and the courting are likely encompassed in one roll.

PCs should be required to make a roll pre-monthly before their first attempt to court a FC. This represents getting an introduction to lady through her family or friends. The courting roll is still required as a weekly action. After the first introduction, the PC is free to court unless an indiscretion occurs.

A successful etiquette check at the first ball of the social season grants the character an automatic introduction to all attending FCs.

As an example, Mr Collins gets an introduction (pre-monthly) through Mr and Mrs. Bennett but then fails spectacularly in his attempt to woo Elizabeth (weekly courting attempt). Another example, WIllowby is introduced to the Dashwoods through Sir John Middleton and later commits an indiscretion by throwing over Maryanne in favor of marrying a wealthy wife. He tries to get another introduction by is rebuffed by Maryanne’s sister Elenor.

I both like that in terms of "feel" and have concerns in terms of how it would work mechanically.

Needing two courting rolls might make things more difficult. I'd appreciate other people weighing in on this one because I'm undecided.

Location
Having all the FCs in Paris is important to their accessibility and the Province of Birth gives variety in gameplay, but given the relative immobility of the era having FCs move from the province of their birth to Paris seems a bit contrived. Varying locations of FCs would encourage characters to go to the provinces more often.

Peasant FCs would have no reason or ability to move to Paris. Any peasant FC is automatically born in IdF.

Merchants FCs would most likely remain in the province of the birth (likely where their trade shop is at) but might make periodic trips to Paris with their father on business.

Gentlemen FCs would likely split time between their home province (with family) and Paris (with family friends)

Noble FCs would be likely to spend a great deal of time in Paris because their family wants to be close to the court but could be out in the provinces, falling the royal court or visiting their estates.

That would work well I think and help personalise mistresses further. I'm also thinking about new traits, both public and secret as an alternative to loyalty ratings. I don't mind some bookkeeping if it improves the player experience, but I'm starting to think that loyalty ratings just increase my paperwork without actually providing anything interesting for PCs.

The big question I'd have here is if attached mistresses still visit the Provinces in the same way.

Social Season
The start of the social season sees the arrival of new ladies entering society. It commences with a ball attended by all unattached FCs of SL 6 and higher.

The season should run at least 3 months and not longer than 6 months and not during the Summer Campaign (June to August). During the social season, all FCs of SL 6 and higher are in Paris.

I think the obvious one here would be January to April. It's a bit different that what I've been able to find out about the real life season (which is too focused on Summer) but has the advantage of matching up mostly with the horse racing season which makes sense.

Secret Engagements
Edward Farris was secretly engaged to Lucy Steele. Frank Churchill was secretly engaged to Jane Fairfax. The engagements did not prevent socializing with other ladies, however, indeed Lucy Steele “courted” and eventually married Robert Farris during her engagement.

On a 1 in 6, a newly created FC has a secret engagement which applies a secret negative modifier to her chance to be courted. On a further 1 in 6, the engagement is to an unmarried PC from her home province. Otherwise the engagement is to an NPC. A PC with a secret engagement receives the benefit of companionship each month the engagement is in place at no cost. A PC with a secret engagement is able to court a different FC in addition to the secret fiancé.

There is a monthly chance that the secret fiancé will break off the engagement to a PC if a 12 is rolled on 2D6. A PC who breaks off a secret engagement suffers as if they had committed an indiscretion.

A PC may propose marriage to his secret fiancé effectively announcing the engagement. A failed proposal means that the fiancé wants the engagement to remain secret. A roll of 6 means the secret engagement is broken off (same rolls as an FC breaking an engagement after a proposal)

I believe Fontainbleu had some rules for this which I'll have a proper look at and see if they're worth stealing.

Scandals
Married PCs should be able to court and benefit from a mistress. To facilitate this, additional FCs should be created to equal half of the married PCs rounded up.

Married PCs must pay for both wife and mistress (3xSL unless wealthy) but get SP benefits from both.

The affair is considered secret unless revealed by another PC courting the FC in the same week as the Married PC is visiting. This is cause for a duel. The Married PC is considered to have committed an indiscretion.

An affair will also be revealed if the FC becomes pregnant and the PC is unable to buy her off.

Isn't this largely covered by liaisons already? (And in terms of realism, I'm not sure it makes sense for people to get SP for secret affairs).

The other main issue with this is how it affects female PCs. But there I think we can just say that they're "adventuresses" and are just different enough from the social norm not to follow the same rules.

[Ymbert Montgomery]

Clubs are done.

Very few changes here, so I'll just leave it a day or two for typos and add it to the rulebook.

The only change is that PCs have reverted to getting drunk on an 11 or 12 unless roistering. I looked at the odds and decided 10-12 was too much.

I'm taking a quick break from the rewrite to write our new priest player (arriving for the June turn) a clergy guide, so people have a bit of time to give feedback on the possible FC rules rewrite.

I like a lot of Colt's ideas, but obviously they're the most drastic changes we've had proposed for the rewrite so far!Clubs.odt (32.07 KB)Clubs.pdf (92.07 KB)

[Ymbert Montgomery]

This should be up by the weekend.

[Ymbert Montgomery]

A preview of the new rules:

9.5 Attributes :Mistresses have six public attributes: Beautiful (B), Titled (T), Influential (I), Wealthy (W), Virtuous (V) and Destitute (D).
A Beautiful or Noble Mistress gives an additional SP to her lover each month.
An Influential Mistress has influence based on her social level that she can use on her lover's behalf or request.

A Wealthy Mistress requires no financial upkeep. If visiting court with her beau she will pay all of her own costs. She also has a carriage suitable for her station and will allow her lover to use it when he accompanies her to events. (However, no SP are gained for using a Mistress’s carriage).
Destitute Mistresses are cheaper to court, costing only 2 x their SL. This same cost break is given to increasing courting chances and the use of gifts to improve her loyalty. She also gives an extra SP to her beau. However, she costs more to support. If a Destitute Mistress is married her support cost returns to normal and the proposal only costs 10 x SL, while the bonus SP remains. However, her family will not give a dowry!
A Virtuous Mistress will never go further than a chaste kiss on the cheek and hence does not roll the chance for being pregnant. She cannot be courted while attached or by someone who is attached and yields 2 extra SP's. She will not participate in liaisons. She will not carouse at Clubs (much like members of the clergy) so does not need paying for. A Virtuous Mistress demands that the character tithe his SL in crowns per month to the church in addition to normal mistress upkeep although this may be done as part of normal Church attendance. If a character fails to attend Church (unless on an expedition or at the Front) . If character fails to meet these conditions she rolls a loyalty check. If check fails, she chucks her lover.

There are also two secret attributes that Mistresses may have, unknown to their suitors. A Promiscuous Mistress gives +2 to any Courting Rolls, while a Chaste Mistress gives -2.

A Mistress cost 3* her SL in Cr per month to keep hold of, unless wealthy in which case nothing need be paid or Destitute in which case 4 x her SL must be paid. Mistress costs are paid by the lover of record at the time that the cost incurred. The costs start in the same month the mistress was courted and is paid at the end of the month.
One SP a month is gained for having a mistress, plus one more if she is Beautiful, Destitute or Noble, two more if she is Virtuous plus HALF the difference in SL in SP if hers is higher. If there was more than one lover in the month, the SP are awarded to the lover of record when the month ends.
In addition to the five attributes, there are also three status levels for Mistresses: Engaged (E), Married (M), and Pregnant (P). Mistresses that are Engaged or Married are more difficult to court. Mistresses that are Pregnant and unattached are easier to Court.

[Ymbert Montgomery]

Happy to hear suggestions for more attributes. I don't really think this one needs a limit.

I really like the idea of secretly engaged mistresses, but so far haven't been able to work out how to handle it mechanically in a way I'm happy with. The suggested rules are a good starting base, but currently the main in game effect would just be to reduce the chance of courting (which we already have Chaste for). I'd welcome any idea/fleshing out of that idea from Garett or anyone else on that.

I am rather pleased with the Destitute and Virtuous attributes if I do say so myself, although the latter is just a slight rework of Death Before Dishonour.

[Ymbert Montgomery]

Before I go to bed, the Debutante's Ball!

9.9 In the first week of January, a Debutantes Ball will be hosted by Madam Duschene at her Academy. (The Academy counts as a Large Mansion for the purpose of gaining SPs from attendance).

Invites will be sent out to a maximum of 15 unattached ladies and 15 unattached gentlemen, with higher SLs taking precedence.

Carousing is mandatory and free at the ball, but Gambling and Toadying are forbidden. After all, your attention is supposed to be on the ladies!

All PC attendees make an Etiquette and a Dancing Roll, gaining or losing SP as normal. More importantly any modifiers are applied to all Courting attempts for the rest of the social season; January to April.

A PC may choose to focus his attention on a specific mistress, making a courting attempt as normal. (This is assumed to take place after the previous rolls, so the modifiers apply). Because of the public nature of the ball, any gentleman successfully courting a mistress gets 2 bonus SP, but an unsuccessful courtship costs 2 SP for the public humiliation.

If two gentlemen choose to court the same lady, the attempt fails, but no SP is lost, and cause is given for a duel.

Madame Duschene accepts that’s a necessary cost for letting hot blooded young men mix with the finest ladies in Paris. However, she strongly prefers resulting duels are kept outside of the Ball. If two gentlemen participate in an impromptu duel they will both gain 3 SP for the impressive scandal, but will find themselves and any Mistresses banned from the Academy until after next year’s ball.

All attendees are considered to have fulfilled their Female Companionship requirement for January.

[Jacques Bougiedure]

9.5 Attributes :Mistresses have six public attributes: Beautiful (B), Titled (T), Influential (I), Wealthy (W), Virtuous (V) and Destitute (D).

I am assuming that Wealthy and Destitute are mutually exclusive. The dice might come up with both but it doesn’t make sense unless you are going for a miserly person of means a la Ebenezer Scrooge (or Scrooge McDuck)

A Beautiful or Noble Mistress gives an additional SP to her lover each month.

It appears that Titled replaced Noble as an attribute. This sentence should read “A Beautiful or Titled Mistress…”

As the rule reads, if a mistress is both Titled and Beautiful the character only gets one additional SP not two additional SPs. Is this your intent?

A Wealthy Mistress requires no financial upkeep. If visiting court with her beau she will pay all of her own costs. She also has a carriage suitable for her station and will allow her lover to use it when he accompanies her to events. (However, no SP are gained for using a Mistress’s carriage).

Are wealthy mistresses similarly immune to gifts to improve loyalty? I think a fairer alternative would be that gifts only have half the effect (rounded down) on a wealthy mistress. This effectively doubles the amount required to affect her loyalty.

[Jacques Bougiedure]

Destitute Mistresses are cheaper to court, costing only 2 x their SL. This same cost break is given to increasing courting chances and the use of gifts to improve her loyalty. She also gives an extra SP to her beau. However, she costs more to support. If a Destitute Mistress is married her support cost returns to normal and the proposal only costs 10 x SL, while the bonus SP remains. However, her family will not give a dowry!

“However, she costs more to support” You mention it later but it should be call out here as well.

What is the rational for an additional SP for Destitute?

A Virtuous Mistress will never go further than a chaste kiss on the cheek and hence does not roll the chance for being pregnant. She cannot be courted while attached or by someone who is attached and yields 2 extra SP's. She will not participate in liaisons. She will not carouse at Clubs (much like members of the clergy) so does not need paying for. A Virtuous Mistress demands that the character tithe his SL in crowns per month to the church in addition to normal mistress upkeep although this may be done as part of normal Church attendance. If a character fails to attend Church (unless on an expedition or at the Front) . If character fails to meet these conditions she rolls a loyalty check. If check fails, she chucks her lover.

Does the SP loss for lack of female companionship derive from the social stigma or from more physical concerns? If the latter, I might propose that a character with a Virtuous Mistress must be required to seek alternative FC one a season to avoid SP loss.

[Jacques Bougiedure]

As Destitute appears to be the antithesis of Wealthy, I suggest Lusty as an antithesis to Virtuous.

A Lusty mistress (or wife) is twice as likely to get pregnant. A player gets an extra 2 SP from a Lusty mistress. A Lusty mistress is not Promiscuous but Liaison attempts (not Courting attempts) are at +1 chance [Rational here is that a Lusty mistress might accept a roll in the hay from a side piece but wouldn't be more likely to throw over her beau in favor of a quickie]. A Lusty mistress demands carousing twice a month (or suffer a loyal check, excused for being at the Front, on expedition, or if the mistress is on Les Vacation) and roistering whenever carousing. The character does not need to roister but must pay for his mistress’ roistering and suffers the results of his mistress’ drunkenness. Failed loyalty check results in her terminating the relationship to find a man better able to satisfy her.

[Jacques Bougiedure]

One SP a month is gained for having a mistress, plus one more if she is Beautiful, Destitute or Noble, two more if she is Virtuous plus HALF the difference in SL in SP if hers is higher.

You should specify if half SP are rounded up or down.

You should consider allowing full SP for attributes. A beautiful, titled mistress who is both virtuous and destitute should yield 5 additional SP. This will make her highly attractive (beyond her beauty) to social climbers and perhaps generate more competition even after she is attached.

[Jacques Bougiedure]

Debutantes' Ball

Great idea! Might consider moving to another month as January already has a horserace that is the event of the month. December might be a good choice as the courting modifiers received could be used the full month of January.

Should roistering be forbidden as well as toadying and gambling? Or least incur the ire of Madam Duschene?

I would suggest some rules on PC parents influencing the prospects of their daughters at the ball but seeing that there aren't any children at the moment and while I hope that the game is still going strong and I am playing in nine years, rules now would be a bit superfluous.

[Ymbert Montgomery]

Jan 28, 2021 15:58:29 GMT Jacques Bougiedure said:

9.5 Attributes :Mistresses have six public attributes: Beautiful (B), Titled (T), Influential (I), Wealthy (W), Virtuous (V) and Destitute (D). I am assuming that Wealthy and Destitute are mutually exclusive. The dice might come up with both but it doesn’t make sense unless you are going for a miserly person of means a la Ebenezer Scrooge (or Scrooge McDuck)

Definitely. If a mistress gets both "Promiscuous" and "Chaste" I roll off rather than having her take both traits.

It appears that Titled replaced Noble as an attribute. This sentence should read “A Beautiful or Titled Mistress…”

Good catch.

As the rule reads, if a mistress is both Titled and Beautiful the character only gets one additional SP not two additional SPs. Is this your intent?

Oops, no it's not, that needs clarifying.

Are wealthy mistresses similarly immune to gifts to improve loyalty? I think a fairer alternative would be that gifts only have half the effect (rounded down) on a wealthy mistress. This effectively doubles the amount required to affect her loyalty.

I'm inclined to make them immune entirely. At the moment, with the new benefits along with the doubled dowry, wealthy mistresses are already an excellent catch.

“However, she costs more to support” You mention it later but it should be call out here as well.

What is the rational for an additional SP for Destitute?

Watsonian: It shows that the gentleman is one who follows his heart without caring about trivial things like money and that he is a gentleman who can be relied on to do the right thing.

Doylist: An extra SP seems fair to balance out the costs.

Does the SP loss for lack of female companionship derive from the social stigma or from more physical concerns? If the latter, I might propose that a character with a Virtuous Mistress must be required to seek alternative FC one a season to avoid SP loss.

The social stigma. It's why secret liaisons don't provide FC.

As Destitute appears to be the antithesis of Wealthy, I suggest Lusty as an antithesis to Virtuous.

A Lusty mistress (or wife) is twice as likely to get pregnant. A player gets an extra 2 SP from a Lusty mistress. A Lusty mistress is not Promiscuous but Liaison attempts (not Courting attempts) are at +1 chance [Rational here is that a Lusty mistress might accept a roll in the hay from a side piece but wouldn't be more likely to throw over her beau in favor of a quickie]. A Lusty mistress demands carousing twice a month (or suffer a loyal check, excused for being at the Front, on expedition, or if the mistress is on Les Vacation) and roistering whenever carousing. The character does not need to roister but must pay for his mistress’ roistering and suffers the results of his mistress’ drunkenness. Failed loyalty check results in her terminating the relationship to find a man better able to satisfy her.

I like that and actually think a Lusty mistress should probably have a -2 to her Loyalty from liaison attempts as well as the +1. I think like Virtuous it should probably be a 1 in 6 chance; I think those traits should be a bit rarer, much like Titled! Also this is obviously only something I know at my end, but it should also be rolled for before Chaste/Promiscuous. A Chaste Mistress shouldn't be Promiscuous and a Lusty Mistress shouldn't be Chaste!

It's worth mentioning that Loyalty Checks no longer apply automatically if it falls to 0 and that a mistress will not become vindictive just because she's been courted. In other words, if you abandon your mistress to go to the front for nine months she's likely to wander, but she won't decide to ruin your life! (Although a check for turning vindictive is now made if you give her The Clap, which seems reasonable).

You should specify if half SP are rounded up or down.

I should probably do that at the start of the rulebook as it's a standard convention throughout that all fractions are rounded up to the nearest whole number.

You should consider allowing full SP for attributes. A beautiful, titled mistress who is both virtuous and destitute should yield 5 additional SP. This will make her highly attractive (beyond her beauty) to social climbers and perhaps generate more competition even after she is attached.

Definitely. That's always been the intention so just needs clarifying better.

Debutantes' Ball

Great idea! Might consider moving to another month as January already has a horserace that is the event of the month. December might be a good choice as the courting modifiers received could be used the full month of January.

December works and also allows people to take their mistresses to the races. So social season of January to March?

Should roistering be forbidden as well as toadying and gambling? Or least incur the ire of Madam Duschene?

I think the potential downsides of roistering may be enough on their own. Besides, our new Lusty mistresses will object greatly if they can't get incredibly drunk at the ball.

[Ymbert Montgomery]

In terms of implementing this I was going to make rolls for new traits for unattached mistresses but leave attached ones alone. It would seem unfair if Renald suddenly found out his wife was unexpectedly lusty!