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Post by huillaume on Dec 8, 2020 19:40:17 GMT
I’m afraid I disagree.
Aides were as much as true aides as they were (and still are) a symbol of status, and the fact a Brevet rank gives all prerogatives of a full one, an aide even for brevet ones is not as illogical.
As per rules, while they don’t specify it, they give us some hints:
See that a General is quite likely to lose his post if promoted, so, if the aide is tied to the post, he will lose the “right” to have an aide. So, IMHO, the aide cannot be tied to the post, but to the rank, regardless of the General In question having an appointment according with the rank or not.
Also, in Original rules, it is crystal clear that the Field Marshal is always a brevet rank, and no possibility of having it confirmed as permanent exist. Nonetheless, the appointment of aide for a Field Marshal exists, so hinting that brevet ranks also have an aide.
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Post by jacques on Dec 8, 2020 20:20:53 GMT
I agree. It is my understanding that officers with brevet rank are placed in that position either as a reward for their service or to fill a critical vacancy. The brevet officer commands the same staff, has the same responsibilities and similar authority. The main difference is a brevet ranking officer is always considered to be subordinate in rank to someone with the same permanent rank regardless of the respective time in grade. So brevet officers would have the same supporting staff as non-breveted officers and would therefore have aides.
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Post by huillaume on Dec 10, 2020 4:48:57 GMT
Another question I’ve just realized:
What happens to commanding Generals when the units they command are disbanded?
I mean, in Original Rules, Brigades where permanent units, and so Brigadiers commanded a specific Brigade, and Divisions and Armies were formed each year for the Campaign Season, and assumed to last the full year, even if inactive (hence their commanders took the appointment for a year).
In our rules, Brigades are formed “ad hoc” when the military situation so needs, and disbanded when it does not, and the same happens to higher echelon units.
So, to give an example, this month 3 Brigades have been formed, and so the Army would need 3 Brigadiers on command, and an Army should have formed (Lorraine front) if enough troops have been on hand. Let’s imagine next trun HL lower in several fronts, and only one Brigade is needed 8and some volunteers return to Paris, as they are no longer needed). What happens to their Brigadiers (as only 1/brigade exists)?
And if the following month HLs raise again and we need two armies and a total of 5 Brigades, who would command those additional units?
I’d suggest making those posts as temporary appointments, open when units are formed and lasting only until unit is disbanded (but keeping the +1 when a new unit is formed, as if he held the appointment), as otherwise I foresee we’ll find units without commanders and commanders without commands quite often...
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Dec 10, 2020 18:55:48 GMT
I'm thinking maybe have a number of "rotating" frontier commanders appointed yearly.
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Post by huillaume on Dec 10, 2020 19:57:37 GMT
Well, the frontier commander appointment already exists, but it's no clear what rank is needed... . To now, General officers may have several commanding appointments: - Inf/Cav Brigadier: Commands a Brigade, and is for Brigadier Rank
- DIvision Commander: commands armies up to 2 brigades, must be Marshal de Champ
- Large Army Commander: commands larger armies, and must be Marshal de France
- Frontier commander: commands a front, and may be any general Ranki, depending on HL (as said above)
The problems, though , IMHO, are the duality commanders that the existence of the Frontier commander represents is the variability of HL. Let's imagine a Province is at HL 3. It would have among 1 and 3 regiments, that can (or not, if only one) be organized into a Brigade, If so, it needs a Brigadier as Brigade Commander and another as Frontier Commander. Then, next turn, HL increase to 6. All the sudden, its regimental needs increase, and let's assume they are increased to 4 regiments. That would conform a Division of 2 Brigades. From now on, the Fronteir Commander must be a Marshal de Champ, so what happend to the former one (a Brigadier)? Also, the units commanders needs are increased by anothe rBriadier (for the second Brigade) and another Marshal de Champ as Division Commander (appointments that didn't exist before). And if the following turn HL changes again, it can well require more or less Regiments, and so Fronteir commander needed rank may vary (again) , and unit commanders needs may vary too... And, of course, all said is also aplicable to adjutants, as they are tied to a unit (not to a Rank, as aides)... Possibilitie solution I see (needless to say, there may be others): Get rid of the Frontier Commander appointments, as troops would be commandered by the Commanding officer of any unit sent. Have some permanent staff units, to be assigned as needed (e.g. 6 Brigades, 3 divisions, 2 Armies). Those staffs may be active or not in order of either seniority or rotative basis. So, with the above example, the staff of the first Brigade would be the commander on month 1, while on month 2 the second brigade staff would be sent to the front too to assume the command of the other Brigade, while the Staff of the 1 sr Division would be sent for overall command ,and on month 3, depending on HL variation, some staffs can be retoruned to Paris or sent, as needed. See, though, that this would mean any such an appointment wold be quite volatile in needs, and risks to be sent to combat or returned to Paris at most inconvenient moment...
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Dec 10, 2020 20:53:36 GMT
My idea is along similar times, but a bit simpler.
3 Brigader Commanders, 2 Marshal de Champ and 1 Marshal de France are appointed. If more are needed an extra appointment happens.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Dec 11, 2020 2:52:28 GMT
Campaign Outcome is done. Less rewriting here because I think most of it was clear as is. Three mechanical changes all of which I think are uncontroversial. When captured, if you offer to spy you now get the bonus both for being a Major or better and having a good SL. Prisoners now get a MiD for escaping and the MiD given to rescuers is slightly better. I'll let people look at this, then put the three parts together with the suggested changes and errata. Campaign Outcome.odt (25.31 KB) Campaign Outcome.pdf (126.77 KB)
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Post by huillaume on Dec 11, 2020 13:29:50 GMT
My idea is along similar times, but a bit simpler. 3 Brigader Commanders, 2 Marshal de Champ and 1 Marshal de France are appointed. If more are needed an extra appointment happens. And what about Frontier Commanders? Are they kept, so giving this dual chain of command? While I see our ideas were similar, those are, IMHO, too few. As rules for HL are, I guess they'll spend too much time camapigning to be attractive appointments. Not sure if it can be representative, but those are the desplyment needs for the period from September 1630 to agugust 1631 (I initially wanted to male the whole 1631 year, but the iatus on sept/oct ,wher emilitary news where too resumed, didn't allow me, so I gave this, euqlly a full year, time span): Month | Spanish Front
| Flanders Front
| Lorraine Front
| Savoy Front
| Brigadiers needed
| MdC needed
| MdF needed
| Sept 1630
| 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Oct 1630
| 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Nov 1630
| 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Dec 1630
| 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Jan 1631
| 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Feb 1631
| 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Mar 1631
| 3 | 4 (8)
| 1 | 1 | 3 (5)
| 1 (0)
| 0 (1)
| Apr 1631
| 3 | 4 (8)
| 1 | 1 | 3 (5)
| 1 (0)
| 0 (1)
| May 1631
| 3 | 4 (8)
| 1 | 1 | 3 (5)
| 1 (0)
| 0 (1)
| Jun 1631
| 4 | 4 (8)
| 4 | 1 | 6 (8)
| 3 (2)
| 0 (1)
| Jul 1631
| 4 | 4 (8)
| 4
| 2 | 7 (9)
| 3 (2)
| 0 (1)
| Aug 1631
| 4 | 4 (8)
| 4 | 2 | 7 (9)
| 3 (2)
| 0 (1)
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This shows the minimal regiments needed each month according the HL (when an army was listed, I listed here 4). I counted a Brigadier per 2-3 regiments and a MdC per 2 brigades. Numbers parentisized mean actual Regiments and Generals deployed (for the summer campaign, as I remember it, as I didn't find the exact deployments) See that with only 3 Brigadiers, 2 MdC and 1 MdF, all Brigadiers would have been all year except in winter camapigning, and half the year even more would have to be activated, while the Marshals would be quite busy too (the Marshals of Champ would have had to activate another divisional HQ i nsummer, and the Marshal of France would have been campaigning half the year)... That's why I suggester more .Remember in the Original game there were 8 Brigades (so 8 Brigadiers, fronteirs aside) , while Divisional and Army commanders were raised as needed for Summer Campaign.
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Post by Father William Souris on Dec 11, 2020 13:41:46 GMT
At the front a 'brigade' is formed of 2-3 regiments. In some cases one (or more) of those Regiments will be commanded by a Brevet Brigadier-General (who is also Colonel). Even if none are, the 'brigade' could well be commanded by one of the Colonels.
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Post by huillaume on Dec 11, 2020 14:00:43 GMT
At the front a 'brigade' is formed of 2-3 regiments. In some cases one (or more) of those Regiments will be commanded by a Brevet Brigadier-General (who is also Colonel). Even if none are, the 'brigade' could well be commanded by one of the Colonels. True, but those brevet BGs acting as Colonels are not accounted for, and even if a Brigade is commanded by a Colonel due to lack of BGs, the staff still exists... And see that, for all the month the full army was deployed in Flanders, the Army was not organized in Divisions (as it should according the rules), as otherwise 2 more MdCs would have been needed. The minimal numbre of Brigades that would ever be deployed is 1 (the province where the RNHB is deployed, that would have 2 regiments, so a Brigade), and the most is 8. So, I'd suggest to have at least 6 Brigade HQs (in game terms, each would mean a BG and a Brigade Major), to be activated as needed. Divisions is more variable, as they can range from none to 4, and probably no more than 1 large army (that would mean 2 Divisions, so 4 Brigades at least) would ever be deployed. I'd suggest 3 Divisional and 1 Army HQs (each formed, in game terms, by 1 marshal and 1 adjutant). This would yet require the activation of some additional HQs from time to tiem, but I guess that would not be usual, keeping most time some of them inactive, so not forcing any character takin gthose appointments to front nearly all year arround. As for which ones are actiated when some are needed, you can either give precedence to PCs (so they choose if they want to go campaigning, and otherwise NPCs will) or decide by roll or rotatory basis ,as it pleases you. of course, if you give precedence to PCs, you still have to decide what happens if there are more Brigadier PCs in command trying to take the command of an active brigade than brigades are deployed...
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Dec 11, 2020 18:33:02 GMT
And what about Frontier Commanders? Are they kept, so giving this dual chain of command? While I see our ideas were similar, those are, IMHO, too few. As rules for HL are, I guess they'll spend too much time camapigning to be attractive appointments. I think I haven't been clear enough. The proposed rules are specifically about Frontier Commanders. To explain: Commmanders for the Summer Campaign are appointed then. They'll only be sent to the frontier outside of that campaign when an army is needed (HL 10) The mentioned appointments are all Frontier Commanders and will be used as needed (and get SP when in Paris). New Frontier Commanders will be appointed if necessary during the year. Which Commander is sent to the Frontier is random (influencable) except no Commander will be sent to the Frontier two seasons unless a) they specifically request it or b) there are no other candidates. Brigadiers are temporary appointments and end when no longer needed. While this makes them less desirable in terms of SP in Paris it's still the case that they may still want to because it's the best chance of promotion and getting a title attempt available. The numbers aren't set in stone if people think more frontier commanders should be appointed. The main thing I want to avoid is adding to the complexity rather than reducing it on this rule.
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Post by huillaume on Dec 11, 2020 19:31:00 GMT
OK, I think I understand you now, but I still see a small flaw on it Brigadiers are temporary appointments and end when no longer needed. While this makes them less desirable in terms of SP in Paris it's still the case that they may still want to because it's the best chance of promotion and getting a title attempt available. If so, the SP value for Brigade Commanders is moot, as the appointment only exists while the brigade is active, and so out of Paris. I guess the same would happen to Division/Army commanders and to Brigade Majors and Division/Army adjutants... Another possibility would be for all those unit commander appointments to last for the full year (until new ones are appointed for next summer campaign), so they still gain SP when at Paris (with the risk of being sent again to campaign if an Army must be activated for HL 10, as you already said)
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Dec 11, 2020 20:54:18 GMT
OK, I think I understand you now, but I still see a small flaw on it Brigadiers are temporary appointments and end when no longer needed. While this makes them less desirable in terms of SP in Paris it's still the case that they may still want to because it's the best chance of promotion and getting a title attempt available. If so, the SP value for Brigade Commanders is moot, as the appointment only exists while the brigade is active, and so out of Paris. I guess the same would happen to Division/Army commanders and to Brigade Majors and Division/Army adjutants... Another possibility would be for all those unit commander appointments to last for the full year (until new ones are appointed for next summer campaign), so they still gain SP when at Paris (with the risk of being sent again to campaign if an Army must be activated for HL 10, as you already said) Not quite. The Summer Armies are year long structures, called upon as needed. So the Brigade Commanders there would get the SP in Paris. The proposal is that the Frontier Commander pools is similar. So it's the Frontier Brigade Commanders that are temporary. Which I think is potentially a bonus. Brigadier Generals can have trouble getting promoted, so this would open some temporary positions for that purpose every season that can be sure of seeing action.
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Post by huillaume on Dec 12, 2020 15:32:50 GMT
OK, so it seems we though more or less on the same lines, though I didn't understand you well.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Dec 12, 2020 16:11:39 GMT
OK, so it seems we though more or less on the same lines, though I didn't understand you well. No worries! This is really useful - if you don't understand my meaning with a rule it's likely other people aren't as well so it needs making clearer.
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