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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Feb 1, 2022 23:58:07 GMT
Liminal En Garde Living Rulebook 5.zip (941.16 KB) (No word doc until I get round to zipping it). This is revisions of what we already have rather than new rules, which are coming next. Change log: The rulebook has been reordered again. We're really getting somewhere now with things increasingly in a logical rather than haphazard order. Mistresses slightly less likely to become pregnant. Estate income nerfed again. This is less harsh than it appears because it's mostly because of: The rules for secondary titles clarified and made less silly. This is why it was necessary to reduce income; those of you at the top SL levels are likely to end up with multiple titles/estates. You now will gain no MRL’s while a royal bestowed estate is mortgaged. (This is partly for PC advantage. The rules as they were would have had you lose all your MRLs if you gained a title attempt!) Mistress SL harder to raise (you need 6 x their SP) to make a bit more of a challenge. It's easier to get better play results (Valerie and Auguste rejoice). The old rules were based on a game with more players than we have so the audience rules were harsh. New rules for starting your own theater. No new rules for being John Wilkes Booth; sorry Jason. Characters of SL 21+ now count as grandees for parties etc. but grandee bonuses are only given you if you aren't already almost or more important than them! Apart from the King. The King is always good to see.
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Post by huillaume on Feb 2, 2022 8:57:32 GMT
I'm afraid the like is not working (at least to me)
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Post by Monique Adelina De'Ath on Feb 2, 2022 8:59:43 GMT
I'm afraid the like is not working (at least to me) |
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Post by huillaume on Feb 2, 2022 9:00:44 GMT
Mistress SL harder to raise (you need 6 x their SP) to make a bit more of a challenge. (not having fully read the details on how it works) See that this would lead to them being left behind in SL against their husbands, to the point to costing SPs instead of giving them (as they cannot raise SL without their husbands raising them too)... |
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Feb 2, 2022 11:20:04 GMT
I'm afraid the like is not working (at least to me) Somehow it had only extracted half of it! It should be fine now. It would slow them down in comparison at least. That said, this part I wasn't sure on so if people prefer the old rules I'd be happy to revert. |
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Post by Monique Adelina De'Ath on Feb 2, 2022 13:06:41 GMT
I'd go for keeping Mistress SL rises at the current format, perhaps said some what with self-interest in mind, BAD having just succeeded in courting Gisla, but I fear tis not for us lowly characters with our mere teens, or less, SL it would take a huge effort to get a rise.......oh for the luxury of the SL returns of some other players! Doh!
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Feb 2, 2022 13:36:37 GMT
I'd go for keeping Mistress SL rises at the current format, perhaps said some what with self-interest in mind, BAD having just succeeded in courting Gisla, but I fear tis not for us lowly characters with our mere teens, or less, SL it would take a huge effort to get a rise.......oh for the luxury of the SL returns of some other players! Doh! Sounds like this particular change is unpopular so I'll revert it back. You've touched on a mechanical oddness with En Garde though.
Essentially:
SLs 1-6 are incredibly easy to rise in, to the extent many PCs do so every month they're in Paris.
Then from 7 to about 14 it massively slows down and becomes quite difficult.
And then above that it speeds up again because of access to court, high level positions etc.
It's one of the reasons I want more social events for those at lower and especially mid levels.
The other oddness we're starting to face is that certain PCs are close to outstripping his Majesty!
I think that's unavoidable.
I know many games have PCs removed from SL 25 onwards, but that feels like a blunt instrument and leads to people deliberately not rising in SL.
Black Sails kinda balances it (thanks to Cliff for those rules) with disease which raises casualties, but that feels like it makes more sense in that setting than Paris. And I know some people really hate the concept of random death rolls entirely outside of PC control.
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Post by huillaume on Feb 3, 2022 4:48:41 GMT
Estate income nerfed again. This is less harsh than it appears because it's mostly because of While I understand your reasons, I feel there's too much differences among the provinces, and reducing the incomes has only increased it To give an example, imagine two players receive the same title with the same size states, but one in Provence and the other in Ille de France. - with the first set of ruels where this appeared, the income multipliers were (respectivelly) 4 and 8, so the Ille de France state gave double money than the Provence one
- First reduction left them to 2 and 6, so thedifference is now trice, not double
- with new values (1 and 5) the diference is fivefold...
So, now, where do you receive the state makes a bigger difference. Suggestions: - To raise Provence and Gascony to 2, so the maximum difference is halved (to "only" 2.5 times)
- To make the variability by 0.5 instead of a full multiplier, again reducing the differences.
Sure there will be other ways I cannot think about now... |
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Feb 3, 2022 11:33:10 GMT
While I understand your reasons, I feel there's too much differences among the provinces, and reducing the incomes has only increased it To give an example, imagine two players receive the same title with the same size states, but one in Provence and the other in Ille de France. - with the first set of ruels where this appeared, the income multipliers were (respectivelly) 4 and 8, so the Ille de France state gave double money than the Provence one
- First reduction left them to 2 and 6, so thedifference is now trice, not double
- with new values (1 and 5) the diference is fivefold...
So, now, where do you receive the state makes a bigger difference. Suggestions: - To raise Provence and Gascony to 2, so the maximum difference is halved (to "only" 2.5 times)
- To make the variability by 0.5 instead of a full multiplier, again reducing the differences.
Sure there will be other ways I cannot think about now... Hmm, I take your point, but part of me feels like that kind of imbalance is a core part of En Garde!. (We've recently had a bastard son of a peasant. Even with the physical modifier stats, it's still clear that PC is at a mechanical disadvantage compared to everyone else and quite a bit one). |
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Post by huillaume on Feb 3, 2022 14:45:27 GMT
Well, I agree game balance is a concept alien to RG!, where one can begin as (as you said) a bastard of a peasant (nearly no money, SL 1) or as a titled Duc, and that's part of the game1.
What I meant is that obtaining a title is a major turning point, and if it marks your future titles too (at least to a point. In origilan rules, all titles of the same rank have the same income. IN former rules we began with a +10/-20% according to provinces (so, a másimum difference of about 25%), and each change has been increasing this difference, as I shown before, to the current 500%.
Another side effect is the current low cost of states, as now you can buy a Gentleman state in Gascony or Provence for 200 lv, and a knighthood there for 500 or a barony for 1000.
So imagine an SL 7 character that goes to campaig for a season on a Regiment with a good Colonel. He may el lreturn with more than 1000 livres, so he may now buy a Barony (so raising his SL to 11 and gaining access to the court) in Provence or Gascony with little problem...
Note 1: this is not to discourrage anyone having such a destitute and low Sl character, as it' sstil lquite playable (more so in Liminal, where they a good turn will mean many SPs carried forward and probably some automatic rises en following turns). In Britain RG my character (CM) started as SL 2 and, with a little of luck and some initial help fro mother characters, ended up as second to top and PM... Challenger are different, but any character is playable and has hope.
Note 2: see that this is not for personal interest, as Huillaume receives his income mostly form his states in Aquitaine and Burgundy (Emelin's), so he is hot really affected too much for it, tough it might have some effect if he ever is capable to redeem Béarne (in Gascony).
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Feb 3, 2022 21:04:11 GMT
Well, I agree game balance is a concept alien to RG!, where one can begin as (as you said) a bastard of a peasant (nearly no money, SL 1) or as a titled Duc, and that's part of the game 1. What I meant is that obtaining a title is a major turning point, and if it marks your future titles too (at least to a point. In origilan rules, all titles of the same rank have the same income. IN former rules we began with a +10/-20% according to provinces (so, a másimum difference of about 25%), and each change has been increasing this difference, as I shown before, to the current 500%.
Hmm, that's true. What I'm less sure of is if that matters. The title is mostly a turning point in terms of status, better appointments, access to court etc. I'm not sure anybody is really looking at titles first and foremost as a financial thing!
It's worth noting that while there was no variation in the original rules, the overall profit was far far lower, even without taking multiple titles into account.
Hmm, that's true. My instinct is that the current formula is too generous; even low income titles should be expensive. In general, I'm not really wedding to the current calculations as such, just the idea that with multiple titles we need to reduce the overall income from estates (which were already probably a bit generous). But in the interests of fairness, I won't bring this in until September to give us time for further discussion.
My view on this is that there are unimportant characters but no unimportant players. In other words the game should hopefully be as fun for the player of a peasant who has just arrived in Paris as the Minister of State.
Even in games closer to the original like London early SLs are very easy to rise in; it's around SL 7 it starts getting complicated. (I'm actually planning to do a discussion of SPs and SLs in its own thread!)
Note 2: see that this is not for personal interest, as Huillaume receives his income mostly form his states in Aquitaine and Burgundy (Emelin's), so he is hot really affected too much for it, tough it might have some effect if he ever is capable to redeem Béarne (in Gascony). [/quote] That's actually one of the reasons I was going to look at it now; we're in a position where most titled people have hefty investments and are unlikely to be messed over by a change here. [/div] |
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Post by huillaume on Feb 13, 2022 13:24:01 GMT
Index updated (let's see for how long  ) |
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