|
Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Nov 10, 2019 14:04:48 GMT
There is, I think, an argument for doing this, but raising the interest rate to 40% (annual). From the little I can find, this has the additional benefit of being reasonably historically accurate.
More importantly, combined with JPM's suggestion it adds a certain level of strategic and RP choice to the Shylocks. "Borrow enough to become an officer and then go to the front" is still a viable approach, but it's not longer the only obvious one.
|
|
|
Post by huillaume on Nov 10, 2019 16:42:11 GMT
There is, I think, an argument for doing this, but raising the interest rate to 40% (annual). From the little I can find, this has the additional benefit of being reasonably historically accurate. More importantly, combined with JPM's suggestion it adds a certain level of strategic and RP choice to the Shylocks. "Borrow enough to become an officer and then go to the front" is still a viable approach, but it's not longer the only obvious one. Does this mean the interests will now be 40% (but a year to repay them) or that there wil lbe two possibilities ( 10% at 6 months or 40% for a year)?
|
|
|
Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Nov 10, 2019 16:47:40 GMT
What I'm suggesting is that interests are 40% , but that's paid monthly. As long as you keep up with your payments there's no limit on how long the loan can stand for.
|
|
|
Post by Yves Eau on Nov 10, 2019 17:04:29 GMT
3% each month would be easier to calculate (=42.6% per year with compound interest).
|
|
|
Post by huillaume on Nov 12, 2019 18:03:22 GMT
Might I suggest to move the posts about the shylocks to a specific new thread? I believe it would help in reading (and participating in) both discussions. 3% each month would be easier to calculate (=42.6% per year with compound interest). See that if paid montly, the interest is not compund. If you charge 3% montly, at the end of the year one would have paid 36% (something, BTW, I find correct and easier to apply, so agreeing with your suggestion, even if not with your conclusion).
|
|
|
Post by Yves Eau on Nov 12, 2019 18:22:15 GMT
Interest effectively compounds if you have to increase your loan to pay it. For a poor man like Jean-Paul, whose monthly outgoings far exceed his income, that is the only way he can finance his debt whilst in Paris.
|
|
|
Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Nov 12, 2019 22:48:39 GMT
Also, if implemented interest will continue to accumulate at the front. The Shylocks just can't enforce it until you return.
|
|
|
Post by Yves Eau on Nov 12, 2019 23:53:12 GMT
If a character is unable to pay the interest, will the shortfall be added to the loan? My current salary would not cover it.
Assuming interest payments fall due in the "Borrow/Lend/Repay Debts/Sell Property" pre-monthly phase, a character could be left unable to cover support costs. "A character who fails to do so loses one Social Level." Ouch!
Beware the fat shylock, my son, The rates that bite, the laws that catch...
Is that the Spanish pay train I see making its way towards the citadel? Charge!
|
|
|
Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Nov 13, 2019 1:11:22 GMT
If a character is unable to pay the interest, will the shortfall be added to the loan? My current salary would not cover it. If a character is unable to pay the interest the Shylocks will demand the full amount is paid. Which would lead to the current situation of needing to go to the front until you have the money. Although I'm also open to suggestions that loan defaults become a legal matter instead.
|
|
|
Post by Yves Eau on Nov 13, 2019 8:29:22 GMT
If a character is unable to pay the interest, will the shortfall be added to the loan? My current salary would not cover it. If a character is unable to pay the interest the Shylocks will demand the full amount is paid. Which would lead to the current situation of needing to go to the front until you have the money. Although I'm also open to suggestions that loan defaults become a legal matter instead. I was thinking of the situation where the character is already at the front with his regiment, and therefore (under current rules) beyond the reach of Shylock collection agents. Would he still be able to continue fighting with his own regiment, in an attempt to raise the funds before returning to Paris? Would interest accumulate on the loan, increasing the amount owed the whole time he risks life and limb to repay it?
|
|
|
Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Nov 13, 2019 16:56:12 GMT
I was thinking of the situation where the character is already at the front with his regiment, and therefore (under current rules) beyond the reach of Shylock collection agents. Would he still be able to continue fighting with his own regiment, in an attempt to raise the funds before returning to Paris? Yes, assuming they're able to be volunteered, otherwise it's a frontier regiment. Again, yes. This is one of the ways in which the proposed change is both better and worse for characters. Certainly, it would mean "borrow the max and head to the front when its due" was no longer a forgone conclusion.
|
|
|
Post by Jacques D'Mestos on Nov 14, 2019 9:45:04 GMT
Defaulting on a loan should render a gentleman a knave and his regiment should shun him IMO (if not outright boot him out and demand he serves with the frontier regiments) but that's slightly off topic.
As to the original debate, I don't see an issue with the "usual" shylock rules. Borrow money. 6mths to pay back + interest. If you rise in SL during that time you can take a new loan, shunting the payment date back a bit.
|
|
|
Post by gaston on Nov 14, 2019 10:17:45 GMT
As to the original debate, I don't see an issue with the "usual" shylock rules. Borrow money. 6mths to pay back + interest. If you rise in SL during that time you can take a new loan, shunting the payment date back a bit. Indeed, it was the "You also may not take out a new loan with the shylocks to repay an old one." rule that was causing the problem. Adding indefinite term loans, monthly/compound interest payments etc. does seem to be unnecessarily complicating the issue...
|
|
|
Post by Yves Eau on Nov 14, 2019 11:56:07 GMT
Personally, I would find monthly interest simpler than messing around every now and then playing hokey-cokey with PC and Shylock loans. If we think 100 * SL on those terms would make life too easy, the limit could easily be reduced. There is nothing complicated about a monthly payment. The debate about what happens if you cannot repay is relevant however we manage the debt. JPM joined a regiment to avoid the Shylocks, and plans to stay with them at the front until he can repay, or dies. He would have been more cautious with his borrowing had he faced the prospect of service with a frontier regiment. My thoughts on this: - the Shylocks would likely have little influence with the regiment;
- I doubt warring soldiers would care much that a comrade in arms owed money to such vermin, even should word of the affair reach the front;
- I would prefer overdue debt to cost SP, such that a PC would likely seek a way to repay, whether at the front (in his own regiment, if he has the authority or influence to send them to war) or one of the other channels offered by the Liminal house rules
|
|
|
Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Nov 15, 2019 9:46:01 GMT
From a GM perspective, monthly interest and six month due dates are about the same level in terms of complexity.
That said, while I'm mildly favourable to this, I don't have a strong enough opinion to do a casting vote. Which means at the moment I think we have one player strongly in favour of this and one strongly against, which makes deciding on a way forward a bit difficult.
|
|