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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Sept 1, 2019 13:27:32 GMT
I have another suggestion which might work.
How about if becoming an actual doctor requires 24 weeks of study, much like a Student of Theology?
But I allow anyone who wants to start as a Doctor to do so, rolling their Military Ability on 1d3 and their Medical Ability on 1d6.
That may be the most elegant solution. What will keep it under control is that it's a real risk; you could start as a doctor with a MedA of 6.
In terms of the complexity of the game, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
It's currently way less complex at this end then it appears, because the rules are very modular. I can pretty much just use most of them when they arise.
As long as people are fine with the rules being rewritten as the game progresses and forgiving of the kind of mistakes you get in a hand moderated game (and people have been good with both of those) I'm not worried. Especially as we've reserved the right to move from two to three week turnarounds if we need to.
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Post by gaston on Sept 1, 2019 14:09:36 GMT
> What do you mean here? I don't know about other such colleges whose entry is automatic in the game (maybe I skipped some rules)...
The Military Academy (where MA can be improved) doesn't require an entry roll.
The Etiquette Academy (for Female PCs, where EA can be improved) doesn't require an entry roll.
The Academy of Art (where AA can be improved) doesn't require an entry roll.
The Seminary (where Priests are trained) doesn't require an entry roll (not if you're a Franciscan anyway...)
So why should the Medical School require one ?
> How about if becoming an actual doctor requires 24 weeks of study, much like a Student of Theology?
In practice I think anyone who wishes to play a priest will start as one. Realistically I can't see anyone going through 24 weeks of study to become one. Similarly with Doctors. I suggested that the formal title be bestowed only on those with Medical Ability of 4+. Sam suggested on those who have completed two courses at Medical School (which means they could have a MedA of only two. Maybe both requirement should have to met? The reputation of the Medical School would surely suffer if they sent complete ignoramuses out to practice.
> But I allow anyone who wants to start as a Doctor to do so, rolling their Military Ability on 1d3 and their Medical Ability on 1d6.
Should be 'Medical Ability on 1d6 with a minimum of 2' I think, with the requirement to get it up to 4 through study at Medical School to become a bona fide Doctor if the above suggestion is followed. Actually, if two courses of study remains a requirement, maybe Medical Ability should be thrown on 1D4 (or even better, 1D3+1) since it's impossible to raise above 5 through study. Going to Medical School even though it's not going to improve your skills would be a bit disheartening.
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Post by huillaume on Sept 1, 2019 14:15:55 GMT
The Military Academy (where MA can be improved) doesn't require an entry roll. The Etiquette Academy (for Female PCs, where EA can be improved) doesn't require an entry roll. The Academy of Art (where AA can be improved) doesn't require an entry roll. The Seminary (where Priests are trained) doesn't require an entry roll (not if you're a Franciscan anyway...) So why should the Medical School require one ? It seems I didn't express myself well this time.
I didn't mean the Medical Academy, but about the Medical College, the professional association (aking of a gild) that regulates medical practices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_college). That's why being accepted makes you a Licensed Doctor , not just a practicioner or surgeon...
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Post by gaston on Sept 1, 2019 14:25:42 GMT
I didn't mean the Medical Academy, but about the Medical College, the professional association (aking of a gild) that regulates medical practices (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_college). That's why being accepted makes you a Licensed Doctor , not just a practicioner or surgeon...
Isn't that just needlessly adding another level of complexity ?
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Post by huillaume on Sept 1, 2019 14:41:07 GMT
Maybe ,but it answered your own question:
The answer would be in this case: when accepted by the other doctors, represented by their college. Otherwise, you cannot be called Doctor (in the medical sense of the world, not in the sense of having a doctorate).
This may be simplified, of course, but to join this college is what historically has made you a Doctor.
I guess rolling a die against a target, influenciable and modified by your ability is not only not too complex, but consistent with the game system...
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Sept 1, 2019 14:49:32 GMT
In practice I think anyone who wishes to play a priest will start as one. Realistically I can't see anyone going through 24 weeks of study to become one. Similarly with Doctors. I suggested that the formal title be bestowed only on those with Medical Ability of 4+. Sam suggested on those who have completed two courses at Medical School (which means they could have a MedA of only two. Maybe both requirement should have to met? The reputation of the Medical School would surely suffer if they sent complete ignoramuses out to practice. It's very rare, but I've seen it once. A PC in a game I ran years ago became a SoT solely for RP reasons. He was a dandy whose parents had insisted he got religion and didn't want to be there. This would be instead of the medical school requirement; starting doctors would already have qualified. In terms of starting "doctors" without a high enough MedA I think that requiring them to raise it to 4 at Med School works. For those starting with 3 or less (and 2 sounds ok as a floor) the obvious answer to me is that they are some other kind of medical professional. They might not be doctors, but they are surgeons (which as Hulliaume has pointed out weren't historically the same thing) or pharmacists or herbalists etc. Formalising that further feels unnecessary; people can choose their job title as it's a rp thing.
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Post by huillaume on Sept 1, 2019 18:56:47 GMT
For those starting with 3 or less (and 2 sounds ok as a floor) the obvious answer to me is that they are some other kind of medical professional. They might not be doctors, but they are surgeons (which as Hulliaume has pointed out weren't historically the same thing) or pharmacists or herbalists etc.
See that in many cases those surgeons, pharmacists or helbalists were more trustworthy than Doctors in this time. Medicine was at its beginings, with little but bleeding and some herbal escences to treat most illness. Surgery was a little more developed, though the risk fro infection was high, as not even hygiene issues were understood.
The most advanced was what we'd call now first aid techniques (CPR excluded), that were quite similar to current ones (splints for broken bones, pressure or tourniquets for beding wounds, etc). Of course, the risk of infection kept being the worst danger...
I guess your simple suggestions would work, as long as not many PCs intend to follow this path (something, as I said, that would really surprise me).
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Post by huillaume on Sept 2, 2019 15:36:12 GMT
A related question: There's no upper limit to the expertise gained by studying (as MA in the Military Academy or AA i nthe University)?
See also:
But I was unable to find this limit...
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Post by gaston on Sept 2, 2019 16:44:46 GMT
22.4. Limits of Education: A character may not raise their RXA or AA above 5 at the University. Additional increase comes only from successful work in their field.
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Post by huillaume on Sept 2, 2019 16:46:43 GMT
22.4. Limits of Education: A character may not raise their RXA or AA above 5 at the University. Additional increase comes only from successful work in their field. Thanks. Iwas sure to have seen it, but didn't find it now
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Post by gaston on Sept 16, 2019 7:53:04 GMT
Suggested addition to Working Section
At MedA 5 ( the highest which can be gained through University) this would give between 10 livres and 35 livres per week. At MedA 10 (the highest possible and likely to be very rare) it would give between 20 and 70 livres per week.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Sept 16, 2019 10:08:36 GMT
Suggested addition to Working Section At MedA 5 ( the highest which can be gained through University) this would give between 10 livres and 35 livres per week. At MedA 10 (the highest possible and likely to be very rare) it would give between 20 and 70 livres per week. That sounds reasonable and the higher echelons of MedA are a long term goal anyway.
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Post by Ymbert Montgomery on Oct 27, 2019 20:35:17 GMT
Having crunched some numbers on this, a change to regimental surgeons to PC benefit. On a BR of 1 or 2 that's +1 to death rolls, BR 6 or no regiment -1. (I suddenly noticed that the odds were too far against it turning out in player favours).
I will be making the campaign rolls tomorrow....
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Post by huillaume on Nov 12, 2019 19:21:01 GMT
A suggestion about Regimental surgeons:
Right now, their skill is 1d6, s orepresenting from level 1 (a little more tha na first aid practitioner) to level 6 (an acceptable surgeon, if we see the cap from University, so I guess the "licenciature" level is 5).
As they are specific surgeons (something that was not more determied by SL, as commanders, but by skill) and any one with level 1 would have a -1 to apply (as they use Medical Ability as MA is used in other appointments), I'd sugest to change the roll to 1d3+3, s ocaping it at 6 on the hig side ,but also to 4 (so someone with a minimal experience) at minimum.
This will make them being soldier-killers instead of healers.
If so, OTOH, I'd return to the result 5-6 becoming the -1 to death rolls, as the surgeons would tend to be better...
BTW, mostly for players assuming this role, I'd increase the SUreon skill according to their results, as per Artists.
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Post by Yves Eau on Nov 13, 2019 8:47:41 GMT
Does a character not need a medical ability of at least 4 to become a regimental surgeon? Medical ability is increased by 0.25 if the surgeon's result is 1-2, but I see no rule to reduce it for a (5-)6. For a surgeon to be lower than 4, he must have been offering poor service to private patients in Paris, whilst to be 6 he must have practised successfully for months. I would think either is an unusual situation. I agree with huillaume that some kind of weighted result is appropriate when rolling for an NPC's ability. Does medical ability start at 1-3? Rules 1.2 has conflicting information: section 3.2 says 1-6; 17.1 says 1-3. Assuming ability starts at 1-3, and surgeons must have 4+ when appointed, it seems reasonable to generate NPCs as 3-6, with 4 and 5 more common. How about something like this: If I have calculated correctly, this would make the "pure chance" odds of BR 1-2 the same as 5-6, so I agree with huillaume that if we implement this change we should return to the original rule for balance on the death modifiers. This ignores the chance of there being no surgeon (1 in 6, I think Louis mentioned elsewhere), and of players selecting regiments other than randomly (for example, JPM sought out a regiment with an able commander and skilled surgeon).
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